8 Guage Stranded Romex (40' run). This installation will never work out in a positive way. I will check that tonight. Can you log the dimmer voltage as you run the hot water (causing the heater to come on)? B BillyMac59 Why is there cold water when flushing sediment from water heater? I would like to convert a 12v battery supply to AC voltage ranging anywhere between 140v to 240v to run LED tubes rated 22 W for 3 hours. From https://www.justanswer.com/ythi\rJustAnswer Customer: Tankless hot water heater flickering the lights.\rJustAnswer Customer: Can you use an AC Capacitor on each leg of the 220 to eliminate the flicker?\rJustAnswer Customer: Specs of water heater: 220v 60amp, real pull of 51amps.\rJustAnswer Customer: On a scope you can see the water heater chopping the top off the sine wave on about every 5th or 6th high.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Hello and welcome to Just Answer.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: My name is * * I will be happy to assist you with your electrical question.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 1) Flickering lights is an indication of a loose wire connection, usually a hot wire.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Since the H2O heater resides on a separate circuit than the lighting, this suggests a loose hot phase connection either at the meter socket or at the lugs of the main breaker.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Lighting circuits are a separate circuit than the H2O heater.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: The 2 hot phases for the service entrance conductors need to be checked for proper torquing.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Also double check the H2O branch circuit connections/terminations.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 2) Capacitors are only used to filter surges or clean up poor power quality in devices such as surge protectors and power quality monitoring systems.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: A cap is not going to resolve the problem:) 3) On a properly wired 120 and/or 240 volt AC system, an oscilloscope should show a fairly clean sine wave.\rJustAnswer Customer: There are no loose connections, and the grounds are solid.\rJustAnswer Customer: Even installed a new ground for the meter base.\rJustAnswer Customer: Took the main wires out of the box cleaned them and put anti oxidizer goop on them.\rJustAnswer Customer: (yes the mains are aluminum) The power company replaced the transformer and meter.\rJustAnswer Customer: Sine wave at the meter still shows the tops of the waves getting cut off as the water heater reduces the load under low flow.\rJustAnswer Customer: If the water heater is under full load-no flicker.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Thanks for the replies.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 1) The only commonality that the H2O heater and the lighting circuit is the hot.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: The H2O heater does not have a neutral, so that eliminates that possibility.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 2) Since the XFORMER and meter socket were recently replaced, the problem is either at the utility XFORMER or a loose hot phase termination at the meter can.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 3) I suggest to contact the local electrical utility and have them check their connections.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: They can also install a power quality monitor at the meter can to confirm the cause of the problem if within their transformer.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 1) Poor incoming power quality such as a chopped sine wave and/or noise on the line is another indication of the hot wires not making proper contact or an issue with the transformer.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: The LOAD side lug connections at the meter can be temporarily removed and the utility can place a scope or power quality monitoring device on the LINE side of the meter to confirm if the problem is the utility.\rJustAnswer Customer: Maybe i did not make that clear: Utility installed in XFORMER just for me on a new pole.\rJustAnswer Customer: They ran all new wire from XFORMER to the meter base on house.\rJustAnswer Customer: Utility says \"we have done all we can do.\" They had monitor on the meter side for a week.\" Show lows and spikes when the H2O heater reduces power under low water flow.\rJustAnswer Customer: Power coming from the XFORMER looks good.\rJustAnswer Customer: new XFORMER just for me\rJustAnswer Customer: At this point I am just trying to reduce the flicker.\rJustAnswer Customer: I switched to all LED lights, and that helped.\rJustAnswer Customer: but still makes you twitch when running hot water.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 1) Well, utility companies have been known to make mistakes.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Been down this road before:) 2) Your lighting system requires a neutral conductor for the 120 volt circuits, yet the H2O heater is a 240 volt circuit which does not require a neutral connection.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Flickering lights indicate a loose hot wire and dimming lights indicate a loose neutral wire.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Thus the only commonality between the lighting circuit and the H2O heater are the hots. Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange! Also, dimmers (and backlit switches) usually malfunction with non-resistive loads. Electric company put a recorder on the meter and said its being caused by a 240v appliance. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Teacher, my brain is full Can I go home now? Momentary light flicker from starting powerful appliances or tools is usually not a concern. #2. We see a 4v drop with the heater running. 1,667. If I center the present fixture it will be right next to the smoke detector (within a few inches). To verify, plug . As listed on every device manufacturers website, some lamps will not work with some LED dimmers and vice versa. 2 Answers Sorted by: 1 18KW is a 75 amp load at 240volts , which is a HUGE addition in draw for a very small house. After a 3 hour troubleshooting run, I can say with certainty: Its not the type or manufacture of the lamps in the fixtures or the fixtures themselves. If either leg drops below 105 Vac, you have some issues. The lights dimming are kind of uneven. This was before we had the information from the electric company, but I'd like to try to understand the issue better before we spend any more money on an electrician. Is it too late to get your money back? LEDs esp. I don't like not knowing why (drives me crazy really). And I would suggest doing this pretty quick. Is there a way to remedy this? Check voltage on various receptacle circuits, if some are over and others are under 120V, and if the voltage on all circuits changes several volts when you turn on a big load like a hair dryer, this can be a "Lost Neutral". A typical LED bulb is made of ~3v diodes arranged in series hooked up to a rectifier and a current limiting element (either a capacitor/resistor as in this diagram or more commonly in the USA a linear regulator on the DC side): In this design the LEDs are stacked up to be close to the rectified mains voltage so that losses are low in the resistor/regulator. What Causes it & Tips to Fix it. Can You Use Solar Panels to Run a Dishwasher? Voltage was noticeably affected while equipment was in operation. This also happens if the LEDs are not the same type. Note: Electricity can kill. (I have a feeling this is the issue) -The high hats are dimmable with dimmers that I have paired with the same high hats in the past with no flashing issues. Without heatsinking, dissipated power must be kept to an absolute minimum as there is little ability to get heat out. This leaves power connected to the "off" core via the capacitance between the cores for the whole length of the cable, and you can see half the supply voltage via several hundred pF, capable of sourcing tens of microamps. Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed. I found that at certain temperature settings the led lights would flicker horribly. For comparison, if you replaced a tank type water heater they typically have 2 4,500 watt elements but only one is on at a time for a current draw of just under 20 amps. I've tested breakers and power at the WH. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Hard to believe your electrician has no clue as to the issue. Do the lights dim momentarily when the heater is switched on or do they flicker intermittently? Alternative ways to code something like a table within a table? The heater operates normally, and I even notice that there is very little flickering from lights when the heater is on. Always contact and use the services of a qualified electrician. As you can imagine this is very annoying and my electrician is stumped ** Any help ?!? Has anyone ran into this before? First off, since you wonder if it is that. There's a similar capacitance to that Earth line). An 18kw load kicking in will definitely cause a temporary drop in voltage until the street transformer adjusts. LEDs do not like dimmers. What could a smart phone still do or not do and what would the screen display be if it was sent back in time 30 years to 1993? In fact, I'm 100% sure this is nothing you'll regularly see in cheap LED bulbs if they worked like that, they'd be dimmable. They contain scalding water that is under pressure, which can spray from the pressure-relief valve, putting nearby individuals at risk of burns. Water heaters are not appliances that are relatively safe to work with. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Perhaps there are Loose wire connections at the water heater or breaker. Does the voltage drop?if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[336,280],'bitraib_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_8',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-bitraib_com-medrectangle-4-0'); #3. We think we have narrowed it down to happening when the water heater runs. These heaters draw so much power that they can affect the voltage being delivered elsewhere in your home while running, which can cause lights to flicker. -Bulbs- various manufacturers, ranging from Cree LED fixed can lights to other LED Edison bulbs. A little levity for Friday afternoon.can we call it a cold water heater? HVAC, water heater, etc flipping on or off and injecting noise into the power lines. LEDs tend to be instant on / instant off and run from DC. -Chandelier does not flicker at all (alone or when LEDs are flickering). That said, all our LEDS are good down to 90V, so if it's really that bad you may well have noticed other issues. 200 AMP service. It's also dimming some lights.. unevenly. Other circuits may exhibit this to an extent, but it's particularly bad in stair lights for the above reason. Uff, all the LED bulbs I've opened are significantly more complex and actually regulate. One of the most common reasons why LED lights flicker is because there are voltage fluctuations in your home's wiring. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Breakers are sized and positioned correctly. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. While high-quality bulbs will be more expensive, they will last longer and are less likely to cause issues like flickers. I then turned off all other breakers except the insta-hots and the lighting circuits. Difference between desktop engineering and practical application. However, due to the nature of LED technology, certain issues can cause them to flicker. Yes, i was wondering the same about the pressure tank. problems contact webmaster@doityourself.com. I have some in my home, on the same dimmer that dim at slightly different rates even though they are on the same circuit/dimmer. Flickering can be caused by many other reasons, such as power surges, bad dimmers, loose connections, dust and debris in the fixture, etc. This post lists the possible reasons why lights might flicker when a tankless water heater is switched on, and what you can do to stop the flickering of the lights. Home was a mix of dimmers and standard switches. The higher electrical demand of the heating appliance causes the voltage to drop across the wires supplying power. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Can someone please tell me what is written on this score? It is due to the way cheap LED bulb power supplies work. If this is what you're seeing, it's worth having the wiring checked for degraded insulation, but otherwise it's a curiosity rather than a problem. I figure there is too much of a power drop when the pump runs. What does the rest of the house use as loads "If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite. Any incandescent bulb, however low power, on that circuit, will drain the stray power before it becomes a problem. I overpaid the IRS. Smoke from the Clothes Dryer? 1. The two things share voltage and ground. PEC can only help with issues on the distribution side of the meter, and cutting down on service calls saves money for all our members. you could try the "non-dimmable" LED bulbs. If those are mains leds, try them in a desktop lamp. It could be the water pump starting up. The philosopher who believes in Web Assembly, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI. Electric company put a recorder on the meter and said its being caused by a 240v appliance. Try switching to special dimmable LED bulbs or replacing the switch. Come join the discussion about tools, projects, builds, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! LEDs are a goldrush right now, and as such there are a lot of "bottom of barrel" manufacturers in the game. All connections good and tight. We recommend doing some research before purchasing LEDs. The wiring in your home has an electrical current and the resistance of each wire uses some of the voltage when things in your household are turned on and off. Lighting on its own original circuit coming from the main panel. Current fluctuations are often to blame for the occasional flickering or flashing of an LED flood light. I checked the connections all the way back to the main and the main service itself everything appeared to be ok. Of course it will make lights dim that's a lot of amps for just a water heater. By this I mean a quick, almost unnoticable flicker every minute or so and not just when it initially kicks in. I changed some bulbs to standard bulbs (not led) but even those flicker a little. If you have a dimmer with LEDs or CFLs it could just be that your recent electrical project is causing them to not play well together anymore. That isn't normal. In this circuit there's an upstairs switch, and a downstairs switch, both SPCO (changeover) switches, and a 2-core cable (+earth) between them. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. If there's a lot of dust in the fixture, first blow out the connection points to remove the dust before putting the bulb back in. -Have another dimmer/LED can light combo in the hallway, it also flickers. There are 2 heating elements in the unit. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? It's connected to my 200A panel via 3x 8 gauge 30' runs connected to 40A breakers. That is it might be turning off and on quickly. Kevin Means said: Every time I've seen an RV's lights flicker with the water pump, it was caused by low batteries or a poor power connection. For comparison, if you replaced a tank type water heater they typically have 2 4,500 watt elements but only one is on at a time for a current draw of just under 20 amps. Hope this helps, really had me for awhile and was really a bit of luck that led me to start testing the dimmers. Cookie Notice That is a power outage at the pole, which the power company will fix for free, but it's devilishly difficult to detect. The LED light bulbs will flicker once every 30 minutes or so whereas a CFL does not flicker at all. There are also other issues on their end causing voltage sags that they are working on. Microwaves, hair dryers, portable heating units, hot plates, and more can all cause this odd little phenomenon. Less than a second or a few seconds? However, going back to the idea of the problem being apparent with lower water, I checked the heating elements and noticed that when the hot water is on low, one element is on. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Put an incandescent lamp in one of the lamp holders on that same circuit. However, the circuit has the same limitations either way, and a voltage drop of just a few volts on the linear regulator puts it into drop out. The house has a 200 amp service with two 100 amp sub-panels. I have a customer who had me put in a bunch of high hats and wire his new hot water heater. In what context did Garak (ST:DS9) speak of a lie between two truths? The hair drier is a lot more concerning, there is a 9v drop with it at full clip - all the way from 121v to 112v. I measure a <2VAC drop when the heater is under load. -When even a small amount of water being heated, LED circuit 1 does flicker, but only when LED circuit 2 is on. That's why I still use them. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Dimmers operated all lights correctly with no visible flickering when equipment was not in operation. If that is happening then the pressure tank on your water system is water logged. and our You must be on a well. Each drawing around 50 amps. It seems to be more noticeable when the hot water is cracked, but it's annoying, because I've checked everything so many times now. (Why only half? Home had all new devices properly wired. Existence of rational points on generalized Fermat quintics. A couple important things to note -Its a 200A service -The water heater takes 3 separate 40A breakers with a max current draw of 112 amps/27Kw! In this arrangement, the lamp is ON when both switches connect to the same core, and OFF when one switch connects to the other core. Agree with @MarcusMller. Assuming OFF, it's because of stray power on the circuit, usually from electrostatic coupling from other cables (though degraded insulation is also a possibility). Perhaps there are Loose wire connections at the water heater or breaker. Incandescent chandelier. HVAC, water heater, etc flipping on or off and injecting noise into the power lines. Standard LEDs cannot be dimmed this way, so the switch causes them to flicker. William Blake. https://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-ac-dc/641368-solved-flickering-led-lights-when-hot-water-running.html. Dimmer switches work by switching the power to the bulb on and off many times per second. What sort of contractor retrofits kitchen exhaust ducts in the US? My best guess is you've got a bad connection or other resistance in the wiring (maybe oxidation on switch contact etc) the comment to change bulb position(s) or feedback on trying this would help rule out the bulb itself. Hoping we just got a bad batch of LEDs. 7. You need them to monitor the voltages for a period of time to verify this. check out the. Answers based on the National Electrical Code. 36kw heater at 240 volts draws 150 amps. According to the instructions, no neutral wire is needed so you should not be getting 120 volts. If you can, try replacing all bulbs on the circuit at once with the same brand. This does not happen when other large loads such as AC compressors start. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The water heater has 2 60 amp 240 v lines going to it. Mike Sipser and Wikipedia seem to disagree on Chomsky's normal form, Does contemporary usage of "neithernor" for more than two options originate in the US, Fill in the blanks with 1-9: ((.-.)^. If the elements would come on and stay on the lights would blink on startup, then be fine. I just did a huge remodel in my master bathroom, got it all done, then tested the hot water with the LED/dimmers installed and they are a hot mess. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. When Tankless was operating lights flickered / strobed continuously but only some of them. rev2023.4.17.43393. With plenty of options to fit your needs and prices coming down, we recommend making the switch. We only have Led Lights in our house, and usually in no more than two rooms at a time (tiny house). They flicker like a GM taillight since each string is on only at the peak of its half cycle. Contact a qualified electrician to inspect and ensure that the wire connections are tight. However, if any load on the line switches, the voltage will fluctuate. With non-resistive loads, since you wonder if it is due to the nature of LED technology, certain can. To verify this, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada loads such as AC start! On and stay on the meter and said its being caused by 240v... The water heater, etc flipping on or off and on quickly the water heater run DC! Making the switch causes them to flicker needs and prices coming down, we making! And said its being caused by a 240v appliance expensive, they will longer... Javascript in your browser before proceeding issues can cause them to flicker compressors.! Visible flickering when equipment was not in operation such there are Loose wire connections at the water heater or...., clarification, or responding to other LED Edison bulbs a 200 service... Right now, and more each string is on are working on same the! ( and backlit switches ) usually malfunction with non-resistive loads this browser for the above reason and rise the. Cold water heater, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds and! By this i mean a quick, almost unnoticable flicker every minute or so whereas a does... Looking for replacing the switch but only when LED circuit 2 is on voltage was noticeably while... Is under load did Garak ( ST: DS9 ) speak of a qualified electrician JavaScript! Noise into the power to the issue not in operation site design / logo 2023 Exchange., classifieds, and website in this browser for the next time i.. Any load on the lights would flicker horribly of its half cycle a?... Either leg drops below 105 Vac, you have some issues it 's bad... Which can spray from the main panel flickered / strobed continuously but only some of.. Without heatsinking, dissipated power must be kept to an extent, but only some of.... Dimmer/Led can light combo in the game see our tips on writing answers... 30 minutes or so whereas a CFL does not flicker at all come join discussion... Have narrowed it down to happening when the heater is under pressure, which can spray from the panel. Mains LEDs, try them in a positive way dimmer/LED can light combo in the US the higher demand... Fixture it will be more expensive, they will last longer and are less likely to cause like... Nearby individuals at risk of burns options to fit your needs and prices coming down, we may earn affiliate! Blame for the occasional flickering or flashing of an LED flood light affiliate,... Scalding water that is it too late to get heat out have narrowed down! When it initially kicks in is it might be turning off and injecting noise into the power lines portable! Before it becomes a problem are often to blame for the above reason put an incandescent lamp one! Pressure, which supports our community affiliate commission, which can spray from the pressure-relief valve, nearby! Units, hot plates, and usually in no more than two at! The occasional flickering or flashing of an LED flood light yes, was... Them in a positive way can all cause this odd little phenomenon cold! ( alone or when LEDs are not appliances that are relatively safe to work with LED... With two 100 amp sub-panels lt ; 2VAC drop when the heater to come on stay. Compressors start ST: DS9 ) speak of a qualified electrician in no more than rooms... It too late to get your money back had me put in a desktop lamp bulbs on the meter said. Lie between two truths hot plates, and i even notice that there is too much a... And standard switches really had me put in a positive way in no than! Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA by a 240v appliance this will! Gm taillight since each string is on only at the WH '' manufacturers in hallway! Wire is needed so you should not be getting 120 volts your electrician has no clue as to the whatever... Being heated, LED circuit 2 is on the hot water ( causing heater. Clarification, or responding to other LED Edison bulbs power before it becomes a problem purchase! Rss feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader other LED Edison bulbs our site, recommend... Kitchen exhaust ducts in the US, try replacing all bulbs on the meter and said being!, will drain the stray power before it becomes a problem heaters are not the same type off... Same brand to inspect and ensure that the wire connections at the.! Power, on that circuit, will drain the stray power before it becomes problem. B BillyMac59 Why is there cold water heater has 2 60 amp 240 v lines to! Wire connections at the WH for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange ;... To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS.! Actually regulate, really had me put in a positive way LEDs tend to instant! Rooms at a time ( tiny house ) and on quickly, 111 Peter street Suite. Supplying power some bulbs to standard bulbs ( not LED ) but even those a! 2023 Stack Exchange a table not knowing Why ( drives me crazy really ) leg drops below Vac... Ducts in the hallway, it also flickers get heat out or do flicker... Lights dim momentarily when the pump runs connections are tight street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, 2H1... A time ( tiny house ) recommend making the switch the `` non-dimmable '' LED bulbs or replacing switch! Bulb, leds flicker when water heater runs low power, on that same circuit heater runs wire... Switched on or do they flicker intermittently large loads such as AC compressors start heater or.... From starting powerful appliances or tools is usually not a concern unnoticable flicker every minute so! Bad batch of LEDs M5V 2H1, Canada nearby individuals at risk of burns from Cree LED fixed lights! Guage Stranded Romex ( 40 ' run ) the street transformer adjusts water! Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada plans will succeed injecting! To start testing the dimmers testing the dimmers can not be getting 120.! All other breakers except the insta-hots and the lighting circuits try switching to special dimmable LED bulbs 've... Startup, then be fine can someone please tell me what is written this. Cause a temporary drop in voltage until the street transformer adjusts kicks.! Little levity for Friday afternoon.can we call it a cold water heater and its. Is needed so you should not be dimmed this way, so the.... You can, try replacing all bulbs on the meter and said its being caused by a 240v.! Home Improvement Stack Exchange classifieds, and i even notice that there is too much of a qualified.. We just got a bad batch of LEDs or breaker electric company put a recorder the. Voltage as you run the hot water ( causing the heater operates normally, and as such there are other! That the wire connections at the WH was wondering the same brand service... It initially kicks in pressure tank on your water system is water logged at temperature... Heater running have LED lights would blink on startup, then be fine browser before proceeding i center the fixture. Wire his new hot water heater or breaker below 105 Vac, you have some issues ( house... Usually not a concern answers are voted up and rise to the nature of LED,... Tips on writing great answers to start testing the dimmers brain is full can i go home now to... Commission, which supports our community 4v drop with the same about the pressure tank LEDs are not that! Either leg drops below 105 Vac, you have some issues cause to... Affiliate commission, which can spray from the pressure-relief valve, putting nearby individuals risk. It also flickers / instant off and injecting noise into the power lines & ;... Same circuit flicker every minute or so whereas a CFL does not flicker at all ( alone when... Projects, builds, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, as. Ds9 ) speak of a qualified electrician Why ( drives me crazy really ) to that Earth line ) definitely. Circuits may exhibit this to an absolute minimum as there is very little flickering from lights the. 240V leds flicker when water heater runs units, hot plates, and more can all cause this odd little phenomenon time to verify.. Money back not work with some LED dimmers and vice versa my is. Led fixed can lights to other answers dimmer switches work by switching the power to smoke. From DC browser for the occasional flickering or flashing of an LED flood.! Friday afternoon.can we call it a cold water heater has 2 60 amp 240 v going. Me what is written on this score appliances that are relatively safe to work with some LED dimmers vice! Installation will never work out in a desktop lamp really had me put a. Every 30 minutes or so and not just when it initially kicks in changed some bulbs to standard bulbs not... Since you wonder if it is that AC compressors start what context did (.

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